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gaboman

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PostSubject: Castro Retires   Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:15 am

Cuba's Fidel Castro retires

HAVANA (Reuters) - Ailing Cuban leader Fidel Castro said on Tuesday
that he will not return to lead the country, retiring as head of state
49 years after he seized power in an armed revolution.

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Dekka00

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:21 pm

is the embargo ending?
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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:31 pm

Probably not. Fidels nephew is in charge now. He made a lot of trips to Fidels bedside early on to make sure he is running the country Fidels way- the man still has a lot of pull there. Maybe in a few years when his power wanes, or maybe he dies something will change , till then I wouldnt bet on it
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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:53 pm

One can only hope that things will change.

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gaboman

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:34 pm

I think once Fidel's out of the picture all together, there will be an uprising... and his nephew will probably bend over and take it.

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:41 pm

Fidel's 70 something year old brother Raul was in charge, did that change?

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:05 pm

Brother, nephew, in Arkansas and Cuba its the same thing Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:51 pm

My history club is planning a trip to Cuba. We were going to go through Canada. Now I'm a little bummed, because I really wanted to go there when it was still illegal, and who knows if Fidel will be alive next year when we hope to go? And if he's dead, who knows if Cuba will still be off limits? Probably not. It's going to change radically after he dies.
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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:56 pm

Lets pray that things change, and that he dies.

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:32 pm

Dekka00 wrote:
is the embargo ending?

Not if they're still gonna be commies.

-HECK!

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:33 pm

Lawless wrote:
Lets pray that things change, and that he dies.

Pray that he dies? Not a very churchy thing to say.

Hard to believe Kennedy tried to take him out.

-HECK!

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:29 am

Thing with Castro and Cuba is that there is a lot of propaganda going between Cuba and the states let me just state and make it very clear I'm not saying he's not a bad guy and there have been human rights abuses but whenever I hear people like Bush take a shot at Castro they always miss the fact that you are better of being ill in Cuba than you are in America or anywhere else in the western world for that matter, or the fact that as long as you don't question or bad mouth the boss you get an Ecucation that is close to most of the west or the fact that if Dollars are banned Cuba would have a fairly strong economy. What I am saying is that there has been some good but Ameria chooses to avoid or deny it.
Castro is just as bad he has denied the beneifits of democracy for years and so many people are blinded and scared to lose what they have got.

Anyway tomorrow 24th the Cuban assembly wil meet and will decide the new boss either Raul ( who BTW is scoring higher tha Fidel in the polls recently) or the Foreign minister a man by the name of Perez he is seen as young and the man that can bring Cuba back into the main stage. If Peerz is picked expect Raul to have an advisory role for a few years yet.

Of course something which a lot of people have missed that could be important. Castro is the leader of Cuba and the leader of the communist party, the communist party are technically the 2nd most powerful group in Cuba, now that important because Castro said nothing about quitting as the boss of the communit party that could be important
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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:27 pm

Heck... I just don't like the guy. When he passes, maybe with some time things will change. That's all.

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:06 am

I had the chance to know and work with many Cubans in Florida, and they could give a flip about health care. The Cubans I talked to in Florida were there because they had family members taken away in the middle of the night.

They didn't get on the boats and float to Florida for no reason.

What good is a free Kidney transplant when they come and take your dad away because he had the guts to stand up and say that Castro sucked?

I'll be glad to see this thug go away. I admit he has a cool persona, got the beard, the cool fatigues, holds himself nicely in an interview, but so did Saddam. And unlike Dan Rather, I got no love for either one.

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:41 am

Here is what I don't understand, explain it to me so I get it.

There are a lot of liberals, I'm not saying the people here, but in general, that have a hard on for Castro and people like him, because they implement liberal ideas like health care, etc. And they love him, or if not love, have some quasi respect for the man and they wink at his civil rights abuses.

What's up with that? I'm trying to put myself in the same frame of mind to understand, and I just can't. There is one country over in the middle east, Jordan, that has a King, and I always liked that guy, thought he was a decent fellow. He handed it over to his son, and he is cool too. I like him, I dig his style, I think he runs his country pretty decent. But the dudes a King, it's not a democracy, it don't have the free speech like we do. I don't see myself standing up for this guy in any kind of democracy vs. dictator debate.
And here's the rub. Us conservatives get the third degree all the time for being anti free speech, when we want to ban the F word on t.v. or we want to stop some KKK people from marching, or we want to ban child porno. We are destroying the constitution or some rot.
But here you have a dictator that kills his own people, rules with an iron fist, has zero "real" free speech, and many liberals can't get enough of him because he runs a good health care system.
I could understand if liberals in general were against free speech, but everyone I ever met loves the idea of it. Why then do liberals not seem to loathe these commie governments like us conservatives do? Is it because on some level you think they are beter off being told what to do and think, and that losing there freedom to say and do what they want and vote how they want is trumped because they are being forced to partake in a liberal communist society and it's for their own good? Or am I way off base.

I think you all know me, I'm not trying to be rude, I just really want to understand the thinking on this from a liberal point of view, not to argue or debate, I just understand most political arguments, but this one I got no clue.

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Dekka00

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 pm

I consider myself a conservative, but I'm anti-Bush, and anti-government in general, and like to DEFY THE MAN, so I get accused of being a liberal a lot. Probably I'm Liberterian or something, but whatever.

As I'm growing older and more arrogant and stubborn, I've noticed that a lot of the super-liberals simply don't think about what they're saying.

Real anti-corporate people, talking about how we should as a society take that wealth and give it to other people. They aren't thinking about the fact that individuals, through their own work, CREATED this wealth. If the corporation weren't there, the wealth wouldn't be there. How would they like it if they worked hard only to have it snatched from them by other people? Is that freedom? HELL NO.

And vegetarians/animal rights people. It's such a trivial matter, but it sort of brings to light the thinking (or lack thereof) of a super-liberal. If you don't eat meat for religious or health reasons, that's cool. But some people will say they won't eat hunted meat. They'll eat the meat where cows get raised in close quarters and get slaughtered by getting their throats slit while hanging upside-down, but they won't eat meat from a deer that runs around free for its whole life and then gets killed instantaneously by a gunshot. That's a lot more merciful than getting ripped apart by a wolf.

They just don't think about what they are talking about.

I'm starting to notice that this sort of mentality stems from nihilism. People read books or go to college and learn philosophy, about how a lot of things are relative, and how do we REALLY know what is true and real? They dip into sociology, and it opens up a whole new world to them, teaches them that there are many different ways of thinking.

But they never truly learn how to THINK. A lot of younger people are raised on TV and quick fixes of entertainment. Even shows on the History Channel and Discovery, though neat to watch and often informative, are ultimately entertainment. Some of these people just lack imagination and creativity.

I mean look at modern "art." A can of soup? Some triangles? That's creativity nowadays??

I'm getting off subject here...

You'll find that a lot of the types of people who will hold up dictators like Castro as heroes are the same people who shun personal responsibility and free will. They seem to think that society shapes a person, that our lives are completely deterministic, and will blame all of their problems on anything besides their own actions. They think knowledge is impossible, and so don't seek it, and therefore don't have much knowledge to speak of. They shun logic and reason as illusions, and therefore you can't use logic or reason with them. I think you may be right, Whidden. I think what they really do want is to not have to think or take responsibility and just follow orders. That way they don't have to take the blame when something fails, they blame it on someone else.

As you pointed out, their philosophy is very inconsistent. That's because it's not really a philosophy-- it's a lack of philosophy. The only consistency in this sort of mindset is that it promotes chaos and misery.
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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:03 pm

What I never really understood is why are Americans so against Castro when America was happy to back Batista who was almost as bad as Castro.

And while we are on the subject of Cuba and bad things going on what about the casmp that holds people for years without any hope of a fair trial that would be Guantanamo bay but of course those human rights abuses are to be ignored or tolerated because that is deemed alright to protect Americas intrests.

Also the US says nobody should cosy up to Cuba but it's fine to cosy up to China right those human rights abuses are cool because after all China makes some in the US a lot of money same as Saudi arabia and then theres Isarel a country that the US refuses to criticise even when they are clearly in the wrong and what about the newer eastern Europena states they are good mates with America because America neeeds these countries for rendition purposes.

Noiw no doubt I will get criticised for this but the fact is that America criticises Cuba and it's leadeership yet maybe they should takle a look at themselves because the American government tolerates the terrible abuses in other countries as long as it suits them in some way
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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:14 pm

Dekka00 wrote:
I consider myself a conservative, but I'm anti-Bush, and anti-government in general, and like to DEFY THE MAN, so I get accused of being a liberal a lot. Probably I'm Liberterian or something, but whatever.

As I'm growing older and more arrogant and stubborn, I've noticed that a lot of the super-liberals simply don't think about what they're saying.

Real anti-corporate people, talking about how we should as a society take that wealth and give it to other people. They aren't thinking about the fact that individuals, through their own work, CREATED this wealth. If the corporation weren't there, the wealth wouldn't be there. How would they like it if they worked hard only to have it snatched from them by other people? Is that freedom? HELL NO.

And vegetarians/animal rights people. It's such a trivial matter, but it sort of brings to light the thinking (or lack thereof) of a super-liberal. If you don't eat meat for religious or health reasons, that's cool. But some people will say they won't eat hunted meat. They'll eat the meat where cows get raised in close quarters and get slaughtered by getting their throats slit while hanging upside-down, but they won't eat meat from a deer that runs around free for its whole life and then gets killed instantaneously by a gunshot. That's a lot more merciful than getting ripped apart by a wolf.

They just don't think about what they are talking about.

I'm starting to notice that this sort of mentality stems from nihilism. People read books or go to college and learn philosophy, about how a lot of things are relative, and how do we REALLY know what is true and real? They dip into sociology, and it opens up a whole new world to them, teaches them that there are many different ways of thinking.

But they never truly learn how to THINK. A lot of younger people are raised on TV and quick fixes of entertainment. Even shows on the History Channel and Discovery, though neat to watch and often informative, are ultimately entertainment. Some of these people just lack imagination and creativity.

I mean look at modern "art." A can of soup? Some triangles? That's creativity nowadays??

I'm getting off subject here...

You'll find that a lot of the types of people who will hold up dictators like Castro as heroes are the same people who shun personal responsibility and free will. They seem to think that society shapes a person, that our lives are completely deterministic, and will blame all of their problems on anything besides their own actions. They think knowledge is impossible, and so don't seek it, and therefore don't have much knowledge to speak of. They shun logic and reason as illusions, and therefore you can't use logic or reason with them. I think you may be right, Whidden. I think what they really do want is to not have to think or take responsibility and just follow orders. That way they don't have to take the blame when something fails, they blame it on someone else.

As you pointed out, their philosophy is very inconsistent. That's because it's not really a philosophy-- it's a lack of philosophy. The only consistency in this sort of mindset is that it promotes chaos and misery.

Ha! Reminds me of the old Matrix discussions. lol!

I dunno, I don't know if that is their reasoning or not, that's just something I kind of pulled out of my hat. I got no clue why the far left seems to like the commie dictators so much. I think it's a romantic sort of respect or something, but if you really asked them, they wouldn't want to live under such a government.

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:18 pm

lodgebo wrote:
What I never really understood is why are Americans so against Castro when America was happy to back Batista who was almost as bad as Castro.

And while we are on the subject of Cuba and bad things going on what about the casmp that holds people for years without any hope of a fair trial that would be Guantanamo bay but of course those human rights abuses are to be ignored or tolerated because that is deemed alright to protect Americas intrests.

Also the US says nobody should cosy up to Cuba but it's fine to cosy up to China right those human rights abuses are cool because after all China makes some in the US a lot of money same as Saudi arabia and then theres Isarel a country that the US refuses to criticise even when they are clearly in the wrong and what about the newer eastern Europena states they are good mates with America because America neeeds these countries for rendition purposes.

Noiw no doubt I will get criticised for this but the fact is that America criticises Cuba and it's leadeership yet maybe they should takle a look at themselves because the American government tolerates the terrible abuses in other countries as long as it suits them in some way

I'm not sure about policy myself, how to combat these commie bastards. We trade heavy with China and boycott Cuba. I'm not sure which way is best, but really, the heavy trade with China seems to be turning them into a free market economy, they get a taste of some money, and they like it, and reforms take place.

On the flip side, we got decades of boycotts against Cuba, and they are still a 50's style communist nation.

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:36 pm

Hmm interesting.

I bet if we opened up free trade with Cuba, they'd go capitalist/democracy practicaly overnight.

I bet they'd more or less become the 52nd State eventually.
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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:43 pm

But if purchasing Cubans became legal, it wouldn't be cool to smoke them anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:30 pm

Even if Cubans become a legal smoke, there is still Humbolt. Not that I condone that sort of thing :woops:
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PostSubject: Re: Castro Retires   Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:59 am

I'm a liberal, and I don't condone what is happening over in Cuba, at all. I don't think that it's wonderful that he's made a great health plan, or whatever. I also don't agree with free speech, to the point that we're allowing people to hurt others. So, I can see where many of you are coming from. Not all liberals shut their brains off and stop thinking for themselves.

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