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 Russia and Georgia on brink of war

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fuscia

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:34 pm

lol yes, my dad called them a bunch of war hawks. Scary indeed.

I agree. We don't need to get into this too much. It would
only escalate things. We need international peacekeepers.

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gaboman

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:24 pm

But you know from what Georgians are saying (I mean, they're on CNN 24/7 at the moment), that they want the US to basically Nuke the Russians.

Ridiculous. I almost feel like they contributed so heavily to the Iraq conflict (sorry, ahem, 'war on terror') because they wanted US support for this very conflict (which I'm sure's been brewin' a while).

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:30 am

The US needs to stay the hell out of this!!! Let the damn UN do their f'n job... for once. I'm tired of my country always coming to the damn rescue, and then everyone points at us and says that America is evil, etc...

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gaboman

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:47 pm

Georgian president was on the news, AGAIN, this morning saying that Russians are guilty of ethnic cleansing and have taken over 1/3 of the Country, rapes and murders and such. I do believe the Russians are occupying a bit of the area, but the Georgian's making some pretty serious charges I hope he can back up. He says he's got evidence, but I question its validity without even seeing it...

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:11 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if the western countries already knew where the troops are in and around Georgia, there will have been spy planes scotting about up there capturinf all the evidence they need. The reason I belive Georgia is that firstly the pressure is still being put on the Russians and secondly in Gori at least it's not just Georgians that are making the claims but journalists as well and there is evidence on film of Russian actions.
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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:23 pm

The Russians are definitely there. I don't think their committing attocities to the degree claimed by the Georgian leaders... CNN reporters are running around, talking to Russian troops as they come and go... there's a bit of fighting, but something a lot more serious would have been caught by now, I feel.

At any rate, apparently the Russians have signed a ceasefire and are just waiting for the Georgians to.... should be interesting.

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:24 pm

Oh scrap that, no they haven't...

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:26 pm

Georgia: Russian Troops Appeared Ready to Pull Out, Then Returned

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In Washington, White House press secretary Dana Perino cautioned against putting too much stock in the Georgian announcement about Russian tanks moving deeper into Georgia.

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:38 am

In every war the losing side claims that the attackers are raping and pillaging. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's rarely as bad as they make it out to be.
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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:29 pm

Well Gerogia has signed the ceasefire / peace agreement so Russia should sign and since Russia had the biggest say in the six point plan they should have no problems accepting it and leaving but those tanks surronding Gori don't look like they are ready to leave or even preparing to withdraw.

Also today a high ranking Russian military official warned that Russia may take military action against Poland for accepting the US missile defence system, if that was to happen the EU would have to take miltary action Poland is an EU member is an ally and friend of the majority of nations and Russia would be launcing a war in practically central Europe the Czechs and the Germans in paticular would be woried if nothing else.

President Bush also this morning phoned the leaders of Estonia, Lithuania etc etc and promised that America will protect these developing democracies he is also called the Russians bullies. Can't belive it but I actually 100% agree with Bush on this one Russia is a bully and we do need to protect these countries that are our allies, I know that war is not popular but if Russia ignores the diplomaric pressure and pushes tanks into Estonia and Poland etc etc Either the EU and US or NATO would have to do something there is no realistic alternative.

THe UK is also planning what sanctions to impose on Russia but it is hard as we are practically sanctioning everything Russian over the Litvenenko diplomatic spat as it is Gordon Brown and David Milband (UK Foreign sec) will present sanctions after the summer break ( assuming Brown is still in a job that is)
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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:37 pm

Our news here gives us information about our response, the Russian response, and the Georgain responses, but we do not get what Europe is saying. The world can not allow Russia to continue with the aggression. Georgia has that natural gas pipeline, does anyone else think that this push into Georgia is to control that major pipeline and bring other countires under the thumb of Russia?

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:39 pm

oh, definitely
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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:45 pm

Wouldnt matter if they hit that pipe the now anyway, some terroists in Turkey already blew a small hole in and it had been shut for four days before the invasion and still has not been re - opened
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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:09 pm

Russia said they're pulling out.

Film on CNN says otherwise.

Man, oh man, they're going to end up regretting this.


Russia also released a statement saying the Georgian leaders are "morons for starting this conflict" and they won't go unpunished.

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:31 pm

Well according to the ceasefire Russia had to be out by 12.30 if they havent done this they have broke the ceasefire wonder what the ramifications are for doing that.
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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:24 pm

Probably nothing. Perhaps they'll be assigned a Richard Simmons-esque fellow to follow the Russian president around saying "naughty, naughty!"

I doubt they'll be out by 12:30. They seemed this morning to be moving inward rather than out.

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:04 pm

UN are demaning the Russians adhere to the treaty they signed recently, while Russia is claiming that the Georgians need to do their part first, and are accusing the UN of being biased.

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:55 pm

Well the treaty calls for both sides to pull back to preconflict positions so technically the Gerogians troops don't have to do a damn thing as they were in Gerogia before the conflict and still are it's the Russians thathave to do the moving, it didn't take 3 days to get in to Georgia so it shouldnt take 3 days to get out I would understand if they had to wait for aircraft to move troops and artillery etc but they are only going 40 - 50 miles they can do that in vehicles and on foot.

NATO has also severed all fromal ties with Russia as of Mondat afternoon the US is pushing for even tougher sanctions but most EU countries are reluctant as it could lead to an energy crisi if Russia shuts off the gas pipes.
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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:21 pm

I think it may mean the Georgian forces pulling out of South Ossetia... though I honestly doubt they're there at this point, they'd all be surrounding the capital in the hopes to stop the Russians advancing any further.

Which seems to mean that Russia wants them to move out of their way.

Will they pull back if Georgia moves it's troops out of a defensive line? I doubt it.

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:50 am

Russia, in my opinion (for what it's worth), is just biding time. I don't think that they have true intentions of backing down. I think that they have been preparing to start a war (a very large scale one) to make the world pay attention. This is, more than likely, the beginning of a lot of crap to come.

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gaboman

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:40 am

The problem is if Russia don't back down the solution would be either letting them do what they want (taking over a relatively young and small nation) or go to war (which will be big, no matter how you cut it). They won't go to war, so the only solution would be sanctions... which I don't think Russia will really respond to. And it won't be European Countries who do anything, for reasons lodgebo expressed already.

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:04 am

Exactly... and as I mentioned when all of this first started up:

The U.S. is going to have to totally step in to help, and then we will be the assholes.

I'm so sick of all these European countries doing NOTHING. Noooooooooooooo, let's have the Americans do it all. They can handle it, and be hated.

If it were up to me, the U.S. would say: Figure your own crap out. You wanna kill each other? Okay. We aren't going to solve your problems any longer.

We have problems here, in America. And we're putting all our money OUT of our country. No wonder we're a country on the brink of major bankruptcy. We can't even take care of our own.

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:18 am

Well, Bush coulda spent the money used in the Iraq war on this instead... but, well... too late for shoulda woulda coulda.

As for war with Russia, it's not really an option. Unfortunately Russia and it's allies could cause a lot of damage.

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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:45 am

To be fair to the European countries in Afghanistan, Iraq and the NATO operation in the former Yugoslavia we have and still do pull our weight if anything it's the Americans that want to come in a take over the operation ( remember the fuss over Yugoslavia) it's also worth remembering that the Georgian army lost so quickly because they have huge troop numbers in Iraq. So we have helped figure out Americas crap it goes both ways in my opinion plus it's America that needs the European countries for the missile defence shield if Russia attacks Poland over that then the Americans should be duty bound to help them because they won't remove the shield will they?

Also I think the EU countries have to be wary not just for the energy reasons I mentioned already but unlike the Americans this would be a war effectively on out doorstep the Russian tanks won't be driving through New York but they could drive through Dortmund.

In saying all of that if Russia continues this approach and sanctions don't work then dangerous as it is maybe NATO has to call Russias bluff and hope they pack up and call it a day if not though the harsh reality is we have to see that through.
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PostSubject: Re: Russia and Georgia on brink of war   Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:47 pm

I'm not saying that other countries don't get involved and help. I'm saying that it seems, to me, that we end up taking the brunt of things, and spending the majority of money, and sending our troops out. Oh, and for the record, I DONT agree with that. If it was up to me, we'd have our military back home, where they belong. Here, in America, protecting our country, and helping to make a difference all over this place. Getting people off the streets, getting gang areas cleaned up and broken up, getting children food (who are starving). There is just so much that we need to do here, in our own back yard (or as Emma says, back garden).


That aside... a lot of countries do try to help with wars, all over, and famine. I don't think that America is the only one that does this. It just seems that we are the bastards. And it's the politicans who make all these decisions. Not the people. We just get tagged since we're Americans.

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